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Talking Point -
The Circle (http://www.occultforums.com/showthread.php?t=3622)
I AM 06-15-2004 01:43 AM
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Talking Point - The Circle
As a foundational statement, ALL MAGICK OCCURS IN THE ASTRAL. We
may initiate it in the Physical but it ALWAYS manifests in the
Astral. If performed correctly our Magick will then manifest in
our physical reality if that is our desire.
What is important to understand is that when we perform ANY Magick
in this Physical reality we are simultaneously performing that
Magick in the Astral. We walk in both world simultaneously. The
same is true about the Circle. The Circle exists both physically
and Astrally (As Above, So Below). Standing in our physical Circle
we are the Microcosm and exist simultaneously as the Macrocosm in
an Astral Circle.
We walk simultaneously in both Physical and Astral worlds.
However, when we are just starting our Magickal journeys we do not
realize this. Our Circle serves many purposes, but acting in one
of its primary functions it creates a bridge between the Physical
and Astral. It allows us to symbolically �see� and �be in� both
Physical and Astral simultaneously. It also provides protection
for us against forces that could otherwise harm us.
The purpose of this topic is not to discuss all of the properties
of the Circle or what is does for us. The purpose of this article
is to share my understanding of the nature of the Circle. The
purpose of this article is to provide you with the knowledge and
tools to demonstrate to you that YOU ARE THE CIRCLE and always
have been.
Many of us when first starting on our Magickal path draw the
Circle physically. We find a convenient (or not so convenient)
location, draw our Circle, and perform our rituals. Following this
process we are usually, but not always, disappointed with the
results of our Magick. Our understanding at this point is strictly
confined to this physical reality. But, since we are trying, the
�Gods� take pity on us and provide us with Magickal understanding
through Magickal lessons, books that come into our lives at the
right time, or insights given to us.
At this point we usually learn that we have to �Cast� our Circle.
Usually, at this stage of our development we still physically draw
the Circle. Once we draw our Circle, we use our Dagger, trace our
physical Circle, and visualize drawing a flaming Circle overlaid
over the Circle we have physically drawn.
After much practice, we should start seeing the flames of our
Circle and many of us also see a shimmering wall where the Circle
is. At this point we start to feel proud of our accomplishments
because we can actually �see� our Magick working. We have worked
hard on getting our Circle �right�, learning how to cast it, and
how to create a flaming Circle. After continued practice the
flames of the Circle become real and the wall created by the
Circle become equally real. At this point many Magickians stop,
mistakenly believing that they have now achieved what they were
supposed to achieve with regards to the Magickal Circle. They are
content. They are also wrong. Based on my experience and the
experience of many other Magickians there is a higher level of
understanding.
Many of us come to understand that the Physical Circle is
unnecessary. Since all Magick occurs in the Astral, why draw a
Physical Circle? Is it even necessary? The answer is no. We can
cast our Circle in the Astral and achieve the same results. Many
or us cast our Circles in our Magickal Temples and start
performing all of our Ritual in the Astral (more on this in other
Talking Point Topics).
In the Astral our Circle is real, achieves the desired effects,
and is easier to cast. Many of us still draw our Circle, but are
no longer confined by physical space. As it turns out, the
Physical Circle was never necessary. However, many of us had to
start in the Physical and go through the process described in
order to finally come to the understanding that the Physical is an
unnecessary step. In order to cast the Circle in the Astral you
have to KNOW that you can. For most Magickians this requires they
�learn� the hard way by starting at the �bottom� and working their
way up.
Now we are truly Magickians! We are performing Magick in the
Astral and
Try this exercise for the Circle. It will serve as training,
validate what I have told you, and make you KNOW it as truth.
Today, you probably either draw a Circle or "cast" a Circle. You
may draw or cast the circle with you inside of it. You cleanse and
consecrate the space. You visualize the walls of the Circle. Most
likely you Banish as well. In all cases, when you are effective
with creating a Circle you "FEEL" the difference. You FEEL the
protective capability of the Circle.
Now try something different. Cleanse and consecrate YOURSELF. When
this is done, visualize a very tiny "period or ring" or "bubble"
within yourself. Expand this "ring" or "bubble" which is your
Circle out as far as you desire while visualizing the walls of the
Circle and the "flame" of the Circle just as you would the other
type of Circe. Feel the Circle expand unbroken and whole. When
done, compare the "FEELING" you experience with your new type of
Circle to the old type. If done correctly, there should be no
difference...except that the new type of Circle may "FEEL"
stronger! Use this new type of Circle in simple ritual and
validate for yourself that it is just as effective. I want to make
it clear that I use a Circle, not a bubble. Nor do I know any
Ceremonial Magickians that use a bubble. The only reason I mention
it is because I have heard of some that use this technique. When
it comes time to disperse the Circle...shrink it back inside
yourself so that the Circle closes completely with no hole in the
center. Make it a period.
This will develop within you the beginning of KNOWING that you are
the Circle. This new type of Circle can be created almost
instantaneously. Once you get comfortable with it then in future
years you will come into the knowledge that creating even this new
type of Circle is an unnecessary step. By that time you will KNOW
that you were the Circle all the time. :D However, DO NOT GET RID
OF THE CIRCLE until you absolutely KNOW this. Share with me the
results of your experiments!
Ashnook 06-15-2004 11:31 AM
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I have a question for you IAM, when summoning a nasty to the
astral plane no physical is neccesary, but what about summoning an
entity to the PHYSICAL plane? Is the physical circle still not
needed?
visceral/spagyrical 06-15-2004 07:37 PM
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I'd say the entity will definitely need something to manifest
itself into on the physical (such as an object, a piece of music,
or a beam of light), but as long as you have the circle in the
astral, you shouldn't have a problem keeping it under control.
visceral/spagyrical
Frater Transitus 06-16-2004 03:51 AM
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Well� I see� I am stupefied.
I have read the topic very carefully and thought about it.
Basically:
my circle does not look like it is supposed to
I don�t set it up like I am supposed to
And what I feel is probably not what I am supposed to feel either
However, my circle definitely �belongs� to me
The look of the circle is the one that was given to me the first
time I did it, and I felt it was so �as it should be� that I have
never altered it or tried to perfect it for this reason, because
it seems perfect already.
Tools? Dagger? Wandering around in circles?
I sometimes do the LBRP lying down in bed, silently, in my head,
not moving, at all.
My LBRP was a print out from somewhere and it does not mention
anything about walking around or tools or anything, it just has
some words on it, so now I am wondering if I have the correct LBRP
and where I found it. (Gets worse doesn�t it).
I have never felt drawn to tools and have no idea what to do with
the dagger or other tools, however, I have noticed that I use my
arm for things related to intention. I don�t know why.
I am also puzzled by the cleansing and banishing, if the circle is
protective and it is mine:
(1) why is it tarnished?
(2) why is anyone else in MY CIRCLE considering that it is mine?
However, good news� possibly� I do FEEL something.
WHAT do you feel? (I can hear I AM saying it right now)
How does one explain the seemingly inexplicable? How does one
convey this so as to be understood?
I have already mentioned that it is not what I probably should
feel, but when I get half way through my LBRP I notice a change in
the way I feel, it is not emotional, it is something physical:
Similar to a feeling of being a bit larger than my real body
A pure, clear but solid feeling
Powerful and loud but deeply quiet simultaneously
Fully alive as a human and yet not quite totally present at the
same time
Different
I have read the above and I still don�t think I have captured the
feeling.
Could someone else do it please, because I think mine is the wrong
one. (No surprise having read this far I suppose)
Ashnook 06-16-2004 03:05 PM
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The version I use can be found at www.spellsandmagic.com
Frater Transitus 06-16-2004 03:14 PM
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Thanks Ashnook
Please excuse the size of the writing, it was supposed to be
smaller, I am NOT intending to shout.
Fr T
I AM 06-17-2004 04:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashnook
I have a question for you I AM, when summoning a nasty to the
astral plane no physical is neccesary, but what about summoning an
entity to the PHYSICAL plane? Is the physical circle still not
needed?
Hey Ashnook!
"As Above, So Below". So it is written in the Emerald Tablet. And
it's reverse is true as well. "As Below, So Above". These are
foundational truths in Magick as far as I am concerned. So lets
apply these to your question.
When physically drawing a Circle or creating one through the LBRP
we simultaneously create a Circle in the Astral.
Quote:
Originally Posted by I AM
What is important to understand is that when we perform ANY Magick
in this Physical reality we are simultaneously performing that
Magick in the Astral. We walk in both worlds simultaneously.
This is "As Below, So Above" in action.
Now, on to your question. When we create the Circle in the Astral
what do you think happens in the physical? "As Above, So Below"
dictates that a Circle is created in both the Astral and the
Physical. And, in fact you know this to be true. You can "feel"
the Circle when it is formed.
So the true answer to your question is that a physical Circle
already exists once you form a Circle in the Astral. You are NOT
really operating in one place or the other. You walk in both
worlds simultaneously.
That said, you should only attempt this when you KNOW the Circle
is formed automatically in both places. That usually comes with
much experience and practice. If summoning a Goetic I submit that
only the most powerful of Magickians should not create a Physical
Circle.
Again, going back to my topic, there will come a time when NO
Circle is necessary as at that point you will KNOW you are the
Circle and have been all of the time. Until that time, unless you
KNOW my Magick do not DO my Magick. I am in not way attempting to
sound arrogant here and hope it does not come across that way. My
statement is meant more as a caution to others. This knowledge
comes with growth...so does the capability.
We walk in both worlds simultaneously.
I hope this helps.
Humbly, I AM
I AM 06-17-2004 04:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frater Transitus
How does one explain the seemingly inexplicable? How does one
convey this so as to be understood?
I have already mentioned that it is not what I probably should
feel, but when I get half way through my LBRP I notice a change in
the way I feel, it is not emotional, it is something physical:
Similar to a feeling of being a bit larger than my real body
A pure, clear but solid feeling
Powerful and loud but deeply quiet simultaneously
Fully alive as a human and yet not quite totally present at the
same time
Different
I have read the above and I still don�t think I have captured the
feeling.
Could someone else do it please, because I think mine is the wrong
one. (No surprise having read this far I suppose)
I LOVE IT! No, I do not think that anyone can explain it. But we
can KNOW it. You ARE the Circle and always have been. Feel
familiar? You are the purity. You are the cleansing. You are the
protection.
IMO, there is no ONE way of creating a Circle or doing the LBRP.
There is YOUR way. Each individual has their own. And many modify
it after performing it after awhile because it just "feels"
better.
Humbly, I AM
Patricia 06-17-2004 04:28 AM
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Would it be necessary to cleanse the circle if it is yourself and
how would you do it?
If I am drawing in white light or the god source, would that be
enough to act as a cleansing?
Discipula
I AM 06-17-2004 05:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patricia
Would it be necessary to cleanse the circle if it is yourself and
how would you do it?
If I am drawing in white light or the god source, would that be
enough to act as a cleansing?
Discipula
Since YOU are the Circle then cleansing yourself is sufficient.
How you do that is up to you. However you should cleanse yourself
PRIOR to Invoking or Evoking anything.
If I understand what you are doing you are, in reality, becoming
your Divinity. If that is so, then in my experience that is
sufficient. As far as your personal cleanliness goes, as long as
your physical state does not influence you during Ritual then you
are fine.
I hope this helps.
Humbly, I AM
Patricia 06-17-2004 06:10 AM
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If I am the circle, I am cleansed and I want to banish, am I
banishing entities from the area around my being? within my outer
circle (not the one that is me) or the general area such as my
room or some place?
Discipula
I AM 06-17-2004 06:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patricia
If I am the circle, I am cleansed and I want to banish, am I
banishing entities from the area around my being? within my outer
circle (not the one that is me) or the general area such as my
room or some place?
Discipula
The only limits to our magick are our own. When banishing, the
area can be as big as we want or need. In my experience, our
personal power plays a large part in this.
Humbly, I AM
Ashnook 06-17-2004 02:33 PM
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:oops: *now feels dumb for asking* lol Sorry, I just wanted to
clarify a few things about physical evokation as all of mine thus
far have been to the astral.
Thanks man.
Patricia 06-18-2004 11:40 AM
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Talking of feeling and knowing within the circle, I have found it
to be a confirmation of where I have experienced God in the past
and a place where anything and everything can happen and I
consider my circle to be a place of exchange or crossover between
the physical world and the heavenly places.
A sort of multi-functional meeting point. I say this because I
have experienced solitude and accompaniment within it and been
told things that I couldn�t possibly have known.
I have also experienced the release of emotions and healing within
it as well as gentle confrontation on issues.
Once I had found my way to the circle through the LBRP, I knew it
would always be there, even if the look and size of it changed. On
one occasion I disappeared into it so that just the circle was
left and on another it shrank and very nearly disappeared beneath
me, yet I still knew that I was in it and I think this may be what
I AM is referring to when he talks about ourselves being the
circle.
Summing up this shortened selection of my experiences of my own
circle, I would say that it is a place of the heavens and other
world but very much a living space in this world too, also that I
am in the circle and it is in me.
I am not at the point of giving my circle up, because I don�t see
any need to hurry the process along, there is nowhere I have to
be, only where I truly and genuinely am at.
Discipula
Frater M.D. 06-18-2004 03:46 PM
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Just thought I'd pop my �0.02 in here.
I find these days that the slightest thought regarding the circle
strengthens my perception of it. It is never 'not there'.
Performing the LBRP re-enforces the energy it contains from one
point of view but I think it also makes us 'practice' viewing the
physical and astral at the same time. This practice will
eventually allow us to come to the realisation that I AM is
talking about.
My circle is generaly 'seen' by me as a glowing white beam,
probably around 2 or three feet from me. I guess the closest
analogy would be a white version of the 'Light Sabre' light in the
Star Wars films. Only the strongest imagination makes it flame but
this feels forced and un-natural to me. The sensation I get from
the circle is of intense concentrated energy. Getting the
Pentagrams or Hexagrams to flame up is much easier, almost
instantaneous.
As for cleansing, I have so far come across nothing more cleansing
and balancing as a good Qabalistic Cross, both before and after
ritual. A couple thrown in during the sequence of rituals also
helps recentre myself if things are getting a little flighty.
In L.V.X
Patricia 06-22-2004 12:20 AM
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Whilst staying in Paris, I was sharing a room with two others and
being quite disciplined about doing my daily rituals, I wondered
how I would perform them with others around, however, one evening
I was shown a silvery white curtain which was to be drawn around
and I didn't understand why I had seen this until the next
morning.
It became clear. Normally I was able to sneak off from the others
at points during the day and connect, however, that particular
morning, we were all together and because of our plans we would be
together all day, it was then that I realised that this had been
foreseen and I was to stand apart from the room mates and use the
curtain to shield them from me whilst I was performing my ritual.
Discipula
Radiant Star 06-26-2004 04:55 AM
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Quote:
Cleanse and consecrate YOURSELF
I AM
Is consecrate the same as dedicate, it seems similar in the
dictionary, but in magick, is there only consecration or is there
dedication as well and are they the same thing?
I am unsure about how this consecration takes place, do you add
some new words in the ritual and when do you do the actual
consecration? ie after the first cross, or after the Archangels
have circled you or when?
I haven't seen anything about the consecration written in the LBRP
anywhere.
Rays
Eliphas 06-26-2004 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I AM
IMO, there is no ONE way of creating a Circle or doing the LBRP.
There is YOUR way. Each individual has their own.
Well said, I think all of us have different methods of creating a
Circle and adapt and change those methods as we grow in knowledge.
The way in which I cast my Circle today as a Ceremonial Magickian
is quite different from the way I did it 10 years ago when
practicing Witchcraft, and yet some of those "simple" elements are
still the basis of the more "complex" method I use now. For me,
the purpose of the Circle has always been to create a sacred space
in which to work, be it for the purpose of magick, tarot readings,
or even meditation. The complexity of my Circle depends entirely
upon the complexity of the work I intend to do.
I am a strong advocate of changing the physical environment prior
to my working, so much of my Circle construction is dedicated to
this. Of course I take a ritual bath first, to cleanse myself,
because as you have already stated, I believe that "you are the
Circle." I then enter my room with alter, candles, and incense
burning and I use a technique very similar to the one you have
described. I imagine a light coming from within my chest and allow
it to expand until it becomes a glowing sphere about me, again
this is "truly" the Circle. I then go to the East and send that
energy down my arm and out of my fingertips to physically cast the
Circle, which I envision as glowing blue-white about me. Next I
take my incense and again cast a Circle over the same area,
creating a physical barrier of Air and Fire. I do the same with a
cup that that is filled with water and salt, dropping water to
again create a physical barrier of Water and Earth. When this
preliminary exercise is done, my Circle has been cast, and I
imagine and visualize the Circle glowing with the combined energy
of the three Circles I have cast, and allow it to grow and become
a protective "sphere" or "bubble" (as you have mentioned) which
encloses me and creates a barrier about me. I then proceed with
the LBRP (my version of course) and at the end, during the line
"For about me flames the pentagram", I imagine the lines of the
pentagram traced upon my outstretched arms and legs, and the
circumference of the pentagram's circle joins with my Circle. I
repeat the same action for the line "And within me shines the
hexagram", at which point the entire sphere glows with divine
light and energy.
You will notice that I use no dagger for the casting, only my
fingers, and that my Circle is in fact a sphere which encloses me.
This is in contrast to Duquette's description in The Magick of
Thelema, where he states "You are standing in a Column which is
protected by your microcosmic invocation. The consequent result,
being macrocosmic in response is that without any effort on your
part the hexagram appears both above and below you. (5=6)" I feel
that the 5=6 formula is dealt with just as well at the end of my
version of the LBRP, and I prefer the idea of a sphere enclosing
and protecting me as opposed to the column Duquette describes.
Again, this is (currently) my method for casting a Circle, and I
have found it to be effective, in short it "works" for me. I would
be interested to hear the methods and ideas of others on this
subject. Thank for reading all that, it ended up being longer than
I originally intended, but it was necessary in order to explain my
method.
E.L.
Radiant Star 06-26-2004 04:07 PM
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That was really interesting and helpful Eliphas.
For me the circle is a marvellous work and a wonder.
I haven�t been doing it for very long, but it is one of the most
powerful and wonderful things I have ever done in comparison to
the many varied types of prayer and meditation I have tried in the
past.
My connection to the unseen was always me going half way or more
and often (but not always) no response from the other side as far
as I was aware, however, I have found the LBRP to be a real
meeting place and not some uphill struggle only to find the other
half hadn�t turned up (if I can put it like that J ) However,
within that, there are times when I don�t quite attend to it
through tiredness or whatever and the experience is one of the
other half turning up but me being unable to respond fully myself.
I have found the experience to be much more than a ritual and it
is somehow a part of me, not something that I have to go and do at
a certain time, I say this because if I used to think about prayer
time when I was a Christian, very often it was me looking at a
particular time when I would be able to carry out the mechanics of
prayer and if I was lucky, get connected. However, I have found
that even if I just briefly remember the circle during the day, it
seems to be there as large as life and I often seem to get some
kind of energy without really doing anything to get it. A kind of
infilling that I can�t quite describe.
When I read about the LBRP, it just said �say this� and �intone
that� as if it was something recited and anyone looking at it, (my
sheet did not have actions or tools on it) would just not know
anything of its power or the wonder and the delight of seeing
one�s �astral home� appear for the first time whether it be grand
and well adorned or simple and practical like mine.
I didn�t know about the tools and I used arm and hand movements to
start with and turned to face the suggested directions, however,
certain circumstances meant that I would have to do the LBRP
entirely in my head at times, but this was no problem as I was
given tools and an altar in the astral, which I thought was very
kind; I presume they are also going to tell me how to use them too
if I haven�t found the directions in a book before I need them!
I pretty much follow the sheet I was given, but I have swapped two
of the Archangels around as I kept thinking they were in the wrong
positions for some reason, anyway they feel right now and once I
had done this, they then showed me that they were a protection all
around me, whereas before they were unresponsive � I do not
understand this, I just know it is correct now.
The stars that are drawn in the north etc. won�t keep still now
and keep circling me and ending up inside of me, I have given up
trying to put them back and am just leaving them to get on with
it.
What with the Archangels and the star / pentagram things circling
me, I feel very surrounded and everything seems to have a life of
its own, I just seem to be a witness to it all sometimes and like
a new girl in class who doesn�t know where to find the pen and
ink.
Rays
I AM 06-26-2004 11:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eliphas
You will notice that I use no dagger for the casting, only my
fingers...
E.L.
Hey Eliphas!
This actually was meant to be another Talking Points Topic that I
never got around to. Well said and others would do well to
meditate on your statement.
Humbly, I AM
Radiant Star 06-27-2004 08:34 PM
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Is it OK to go to sleep in one's circle, because sometimes I do
and I find it very relaxing and peaceful?
Rays
I AM 06-27-2004 09:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radiant Star
Is it OK to go to sleep in one's circle, because sometimes I do
and I find it very relaxing and peaceful?
Rays
Yes it is okay to do that. However, do not forget to Banish. If
you "cast" a circle you must banish. IMHO, having said that,
others in your home that are not "protected" by your Circle MAY be
affected. This leads in to my next statement.
There is no limit to how big the Circle is. The only limits are
your own. You will "Feel" when the Circle you are casting is too
big. Believe me, you have the capability to create a far larger
Circle than you think! Experiment in ways to take advantage of
that.
Humbly, I AM
I AM 06-27-2004 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I AM
Yes it is okay to do that. However, do not forget to Banish. If
you "cast" a circle you must banish. IMHO, having said that,
others in your home that are not "protected" by your Circle MAY be
affected. This leads in to my next statement.
There is no limit to how big the Circle is. The only limits are
your own. You will "Feel" when the Circle you are casting is too
big. Believe me, you have the capability to create a far larger
Circle than you think! Experiment in ways to take advantage of
that.
Humbly, I AM
I should also caution that this practice will probably lead to
some INTERESTING experiences. You see, I did this in my early
years. Your Circle WILL be tested. And "things" that you might not
ever consciously call may appear. So, make certain your Circle is
absolutely "rock solid". And, if you start having any
uncomfortable experiences you might want to stop. I know, I am
stating the obvious...
Humbly, I AM
Radiant Star 06-27-2004 10:11 PM
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Yes, I realise I will be tested.
I did have some being or guardian stand by me to show me how easy
it can be for my circle to be broken by a determined being. The
guardian watched it break and told me that I had to keep
concentration if I was under attack because the minute I lost it,
that was when the thing was able to enter. It started to enter and
the guardian either stopped it or banished it. I failed to stop
it. Unfortunately, I was fascinated and just watched it. Sigh.
:sad:
I have at times made the circle (mentally, I have never physically
cast yet) very large and put the whole house inside of it, however
this brought up questions of people entering and leaving the house
and circle. (I need to ask a question about this, but I don't know
what it is yet)
I am still trying to understand the circle fully and what each
part of my ritual actually does, as I have said before, I only had
the ritual words and need to do some reading somewhere.
Still confused about much of it, but hey ho, moving on with much
gratitude for help here and from 'above'
Rays
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